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RE: Considering a Wacom... - 9/9/2006 1:48:06 PM   
cel


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I used to use a Colorvision Spyder, with my old monitor (literally, the worlds oldest and crappiest monitor lol). I don't use one now though. A lot of my problems came from my gamma settings. Native gamma

I do have a new system up and running after a complete rebuild this summer of my pc, this computer is the one I use ICC profiles with as it is networked with our Epsons and the mac is not (laptop)..I just use a jump drive or drag to a network folder to get art off the mac if I need to print it.

Profiles I use are all of the ones at Adobe, I use Legion's profiles as I use their Somerset rag papers and a few others (if you ever come in to town, hie thyself to Glazer's they have an incredible array of digital art papers available, some even with sample packs to try).

Don't feel bad about the color management, everyone has to deal with it...I fiddle with stuff a lot before I like a final version, and I usually run anywhere from 10-20 artists proofs just to get a color match I like. The Adobe site has some good resourses for zeroing in on printing and color matching in pdf form, they are in the same general vicintity as the icc profiles are on the Adobe site.

Painter is very customizable and yes you can set up your own preferences, something I need to do so i dont have to dig through the folders to find the tools I use the most. But then again I am waiting for version 11 and I am going to get a fresh new full version (I have an piggy back upgrade thats been going on for years and I always lose my product code lol).

Here are a few more books that I have found helpful ~

http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Digital-Printing-Second-Process/dp/1592004318/sr=8-1/qid=1157823645/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-8265443-0421516?ie=UTF8&s=books

http://www.amazon.com/Real-World-Color-Management-Second/dp/0321267222/sr=8-6/qid=1157823645/ref=pd_bbs_6/104-8265443-0421516?ie=UTF8&s=books

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Pro-Training-Color-Management/dp/0321245768/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt/104-8265443-0421516?ie=UTF8

(in reply to DawnWhite)
   Post #: 21
RE: Considering a Wacom... - 9/9/2006 1:49:48 PM   
cel


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A snip of some dialogue I have in nates regarding calibration/gamma etc. You could study this junk for years and still just scratch the surface. The only sure way is to download the picture and view it in an image editing program with the appropriate color management enabled throughout the imaging chain - scanner to monitor. Mac screens have a Gamma of 1.72 and PC screens have a Gamma of 2.53 (no it's not 2.2 as everyone assumes) so if you apply the difference .81 in a - or a + to the appropriate file you should see the effect on your screen of a cross platform transfer.
first of all, unless everyone is working on an accurately calibrated and profiled monitor, every image on every monitor will look different, sometimes significantly.<P>To accurately calibrate and profile a monitor, currently there is no alternative to using a separate hardware (colorimeter) + software package like the ones offered by Colorvision, monaco, Gretag-Macbeth, or the proprietary ones for the Sony Artisan, LaCie & Barco monitors. neither apple's built in Color sync or Adobe's Gamma software only tools will do it because they rely solely on the viewers eye to guess at accurate gray scales, gamma (contrast range slope), & colors. The human eye and brain, is a marvelous perceptual system, that has a prime strength of flexibility and adaptability. That strength unfortunately is a weakness when it comes to calibrating and adjusting a monitor to a fixed standard. Your color perception can be affected by: ambient light in the room you are working in, the physical setting of the monitor, the viewer's age, the time of day, the health and condition of the viewer's eyes and brain, and many other factors.<P>This complicates the fact that every individual monitor has a different color 'signature" -- the way it interprets the signal sent to it by the image processing system of your computer.<P>Zeroes and Ones.<P>All digital images, like everything done by your computer, consists of zeroes and ones. Each image --whether digital or analog --has it's own colorspace encoded. To put it crudely, how a particular device --camera, scanner, monitor and printer/paper/ink combination -- creates or interprets these zeroes and ones are a large part of what is also known as the "colorspace" of each device. This is how the device interprets the data in the image file. What the profiling process does is to create a test image run it through the device and then using an external tool called a colorimeter) measures the analog output of the device you are using and converts those results back to digital form and compares that set of data to the data fed into the device, The software notes where the output is different from the input and creates an individual "profile" which tweaks the data being fed to the device so that what is displayed is an accurate rendition of the of the underlying data.<P>Why profiling is important. <P>Profiles are really what David Blatner and Bruce Fraser in <B>Real World Adobe Photoshop 7</B> call "translators". if you don't make an accurate translation from the original image file to the monitor's colorspace, how can you ever hope , except by wasting a lot of time and materials, to get an accurate print -- or more to the point of your question Lutz, a accurate interpretation from one operating system platform to another? Or even from one monitor to another using the same computer? My wife works n a Dell PC using windows 98. I use an Apple G4 running OS x (10.2.6) I have used Colorvision's PhotoCAL and Spyder , calibration and profiling toolset to profile both of our monitors. I do this about every two weeks. Both monitor's display images identically. <P>Bottom line:<P>The best you can do is accurately calibrate and profile your monitor and hope and pray that whoever is viewing the image on their system is also using a calibrated and accurately profiled monitor on their system.

(in reply to cel)
   Post #: 22
RE: Considering a Wacom... - 9/9/2006 2:17:36 PM   
DawnWhite

 

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I think my head just exploded...

...but this ISN'T incomprehnsible. I'd already learned about the 'colorspace' thing, and understand that the greatest need is to match my display to my output. Guess I'll just investigate the little display calibration tools and create profiles for my particular lighting conditions, and calibrate regularly. *sigh*

...I'm guessing this process is the digital equivalent to cleaning brushes and priming canvas?

(in reply to cel)
Post #: 23
RE: Considering a Wacom... - 9/9/2006 3:53:42 PM   
Robin47


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I read it too and its a lot to assimalate (did I spell that right? Reminds me of assasinate, as in my brain functions...) Still, it does make some sense. Just so that everywhere it's displayed, it reads the same. Don't we all want that for our art? Too bad we can't adjust the color spaces of the brick and mortar galleries as easily.

Robin YMM

_____________________________

"Robin, did you get that?" "No..."

Metal has no form of it's own. We breathe life into it as we shape it. Metalsmithing is true magic.

It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well. -- Rene Descartes

(in reply to DawnWhite)
      Post #: 24
RE: Considering a Wacom... - 9/9/2006 10:22:42 PM   
krisjean


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Dawn, I;ve been reading between here and the blog and sounds like it is pretty much a done deal...(dropped some major $$$$).....I've just not known what to say........

It feels like a hole in the force if you switch sides..............

We need you o Jedi Master!

Please tell me you will NOT be putting down your lightsaber (paint brush) forever...........


It takes balls to up and change media like this............big brass ones...



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(in reply to Robin47)
      Post #: 25
RE: Considering a Wacom... - 9/9/2006 10:40:18 PM   
bromley2


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Aw, Kris, don't worry, we will take good care of her...and we will let her visit once in a while, just as long as she has permission.....:0)

What an article Cel!  Dawn, I know my head exploded, but I am used to it exploding over and over.  I have read whole books that sound like that and I am still in the dark about all this color management.  Actually, I don't calibrate...........I am happy with the way my prints come out, I am quite close to the monitor so it seems ok to me.  But, I always feel like I am breaking some Cardinal Rule by not calibrating.......Well, I am going to go and put my head back together now...........

Carolyn

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     Post #: 26
RE: Considering a Wacom... - 9/9/2006 10:48:28 PM   
DawnWhite

 

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quote:

It feels like a hole in the force if you switch sides..............


BWAHAHAH!! I'm not changing sides OR hanging up my brushes.. just gonna use the brushes less frequently, but with more purpose. Someone I met through MySpace expressed the opinion that one medium would, in fact, enhance the use of the other. I think she might be right about that.

I'm not joining the Dark Side. I'm just adding a new medium to my toolkit.

(in reply to bromley2)
Post #: 27
RE: Considering a Wacom... - 9/9/2006 10:57:53 PM   
Robin47


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The artist is not defined by the medium.

Robin YMM

_____________________________

"Robin, did you get that?" "No..."

Metal has no form of it's own. We breathe life into it as we shape it. Metalsmithing is true magic.

It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well. -- Rene Descartes

(in reply to DawnWhite)
      Post #: 28
RE: Considering a Wacom... - 9/10/2006 12:10:33 AM   
chinchillabutt


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lol! this is how i feel after seeing cel's posts



don't mind me - lol - i've had 2 saki's instead of my usual 1 heehee

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  Post #: 29
RE: Considering a Wacom... - 9/10/2006 12:19:26 AM   
DawnWhite

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Robin47

The artist is not defined by the medium.

Robin YMM


werd up, Yummy Metal Man!

(in reply to Robin47)
Post #: 30
RE: Considering a Wacom... - 9/10/2006 3:18:20 PM   
cel


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Haha :)

Be glad i save most of my heavy theorical junk for school :D

Digital/traditional, all just tools, not something that defines us or art art in my book. Never struggle with labels, its a waste of time.

Just follow your nose, whatever is interesting to you in art, just go where that nose takes you, it takes you where you need to be :)

just rambling general thoughts, not directed at anyone btw :)

(in reply to DawnWhite)
   Post #: 31
RE: Considering a Wacom... - 9/10/2006 4:01:03 PM   
Robin47


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chinchillabutt

lol! this is how i feel after seeing cel's posts



don't mind me - lol - i've had 2 saki's instead of my usual 1 heehee


I think the eye falling off the wall at the end is over the top!

Robin YMM

_____________________________

"Robin, did you get that?" "No..."

Metal has no form of it's own. We breathe life into it as we shape it. Metalsmithing is true magic.

It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well. -- Rene Descartes

(in reply to chinchillabutt)
      Post #: 32
RE: Considering a Wacom... - 9/10/2006 5:05:16 PM   
bromley2


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quote:

just go where that nose takes you, it takes you where you need to be :)


I like that Kelly.  And, my nose took me right to my monitor screen! Been here ever since!

Carolyn

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     Post #: 33
RE: Considering a Wacom... - 9/11/2006 7:00:16 PM   
DawnWhite

 

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*sigh*

After several days of calling nearly every vendor in the country (including one place in New Jersey, whose sales rep -upon hearing that I'd called everyone in the country- said "Lady, you have WAY too much time on your hands") it has become blindingly obvious that NO ONE has any of these things in stock. Not new, anyway. One nice lady in Boulder is willing to sell me her demo model for $2300. I'll pass... too many 'ifs' in that equation. So, I've gotta wait a couple of weeks. No biggie. I went back and re-placed the order at the original vendor, http://www.powermax.com/ ...they're a large vendor for Wacom, so they'll be getting their next shipment at the end of this week or early next week.

The reason for the apparent national shortage isn't just one reason... but rather a combination of A) a recent drop in price that places this unit within reach of the dedicated consumer/small business owner, B) a lack of production capacity and C) a late batch of shipping containers. I don't know if Wacom is going to upgrade their production capacity. I hope they do. Okay, honestly, I don't care if they upgrade capacity once I've got my unit.

(in reply to bromley2)
Post #: 34
RE: Considering a Wacom... - 9/26/2006 2:44:08 AM   
DawnWhite

 

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BWAHAHAHHAH!!! IT'S HERE!!! IT'S FARKING BEAUTIFUL!!!

I spent the whole day getting the room ready, and most of the night setting things up so it all runs smoothly together.. finally, I spent about an hour dinking around with the charcoal drawing tools, and little with the watercolor. This is what I came up with:




I'm in love with this thing, even if it did take me a few minutes to get used to two monitors.

(in reply to DawnWhite)
Post #: 35
RE: Considering a Wacom... - 9/26/2006 8:03:01 AM   
bromley2


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Oh Wow!  Congratulations on getting it!  And, wow, I am impressed with what happens when you do a little dinking around....beautiful! 

I love having two monitors.  I especially like them when I do a tutorial....open photoshop in one and the tutorial in another..works great!

Well, congratulations on your new toy!

Carolyn

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EBAY
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     Post #: 36
RE: Considering a Wacom... - 9/26/2006 2:15:36 PM   
cel


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Fabulous!

Now you should try this software :) Used to be Alias sketchbook pro, now its autodesk. Heres a link to free trial.

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?id=6942597&siteID=123112

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   Post #: 37
RE: Considering a Wacom... - 9/26/2006 2:41:33 PM   
DawnWhite

 

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Okay, looking at it, but not going to download the trial until I'm done with the Corel Painter 9.5 trial.. I need time to absorb all this stuff, and don't want to buy software if it's got built-in limitations that hinder my purpose. Thanks, Cel!

(in reply to cel)
Post #: 38
RE: Considering a Wacom... - 9/26/2006 6:11:21 PM   
Robin47


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Nice (remarkable) effort for just getting the feel of it?

OMG! yes! Sketchbook Pro is what I use on my tablet! I wish I had more time to play with it myself...

Robin YMM

< Message edited by Robin47 -- 9/26/2006 6:13:15 PM >


_____________________________

"Robin, did you get that?" "No..."

Metal has no form of it's own. We breathe life into it as we shape it. Metalsmithing is true magic.

It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well. -- Rene Descartes

(in reply to DawnWhite)
      Post #: 39
RE: Considering a Wacom... - 9/27/2006 1:55:05 PM   
DawnWhite

 

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Robin, does it support the whole pressure/tilt sensitivity thing? Or does it need to?

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Post #: 40
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